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Mike 's Blog

08 Dec 2020

1794 Plain Edge Token Franklin Press A/U 58

Tokens | Mike

Hi my friends . I'm writing this blog about a label. That's right. It's wrong. Quick story. This is the second time I have taken up my position against NGC. You see the title is wrong. Very wrong. I called NGC. Talk about people who Will not admit to a simple mistake. The label should read 1794 GB. Half Penny. No Edge. Franklin Press Middlesex 307a. This is the third year I have taken them to task.

If you didn't know Condor tokens and saw this in the Red Book you would think it was made here a post Colonial. Very wrong. Now NGC has refused to change the label to read the way it should. It was according to Mr. Bowers it never circulated in the United States. England yes.I spoke to the section supervisor of tokens and heard no we will not change the label. I said because if you did you would be doing the right thing. And admitting you made a mistake. Never happen

Now I just want the label to read the correct information. Made in Great Britain. Not the U.S. I said give me proof about your label. We don't have to do that. I have the proof the book the token . Bottom line they made a mistake.. Bottom line they refuse to change history. The history of Mr. Franklin and were his token was made. I think they found it on wikapedia. Then I could understand the mistake. To this day refuse to change there label.
It's a Conder token pure and simple. No number to look it up in Dalton and Hammer. That number is 307a. Has nothing to do with the red book.. I thought in was speaking to a token expert. Turns out wasn't. They will not take it higher. Didn't mean I won't . These mistakes must be corrected. . It means allot to those who are looking to buy it and own it. It does mean something about history. Thanks.

!

Please.enlarge pictures. Get a good view


...THE TWO OTHER COINS HAVE THE REGULAR LABEL FOR CONDER TOKENS. . ENLARGE P!EASE AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE. I ALSO PUT THE PAGE IT IS LISTED IN IN DALTON AND HAMMERS REFERENCE BOOK. THE TWO NUMBERS OF THE TWO TOKENS ONE EDGE WRITING THE ONE I'M TALKING ABOUT HAS NONE


P.S. P.C.G.S. Has the same label. They probably followed N.G.C. Simply because they do not know Conder tokens.. They don't even put the fact that's there is edge writing.










Comments

Mal_ANA_YN

Level 4

It sounds like you have the facts and facts do not seem to matter to people in charge in longer.

Kepi

Level 6

You are right. And you, Mike are the expert on these. What you say goes! NGC should reconsider and correct it.

Long Beard

Level 5

I've looked at the images several times and seem to be missing something. To me it appears accurate, unless you are referring to the addition of GB following the date as some of the early tokens do have. However, the tokens reverse clearly states Payable at London which leaves little doubt that it was struck and meant for use in England. So the GB would not be necessary. Or so this is my conclusion.

Mike

Level 7

What they wrote in the back is payable in london. The other Franklin has edge writing makes a huge differance. . What you see is a Conder token with a wrong label look at the two I put up. Every token label is like that because everything means somthing. .years they made them like that. It took months to learn that book there are thousands of different tokens. There still made today.. First the Soho mint. Then the Birmingham mint . Now the New Birmingham mint. They make tokens and money for the Royal Mint and Africa. These are not just tokens every single one was made has a story. They tell history. You have to learn to read it the book. The ANA has a course in Comder tokens . It's given by Jerri Bobbie. An expert. Sam has numerous times called me an expert on these special tokens. There great . There works of Art in Copper and Bronze and they helped G.B. When they were not giving out gold and silver. They were used as money like our civil war tokens They go back to the early 1700's. Mine grade MS 63to 66 and some.PL. Ok red and brown. Coins made here so t grade as well. These were taken care of.

Longstrider

Level 6

Long Beard. The label is completely incorrect. It doesn't even have the Dalton and Hammer number. That little detail is crucial to Condor Token collectors. The G.B. is huge. I could go on but wrong is wrong. Respectfully.

Golfer

Level 5

Don't know anything about these. NGC needs to step up or lose credibility. When it comes to older tokens and coins, the label needs to be correct. Its an honor to know Mike on this ANA site. NGC needs to realize that they can't get away with things like this. Thanks Mike!

I don't think NGC will admit they made a mistake, not when they are already losing against NGC. I hope your words break through tot hem though. keep at it!

Mike

Level 7

Nub that's been the problem these past years. We don't make mistakes. We're N.G.C. Well Mr. Standish will get a personal letter for his eyes only. When I state my case I'm sure he will agree this has to be changed. Thanks

Stumpy

Level 5

Point to Mike, Go get em Pally! I know you have the knowledge, keep at it, one day they may actually do a retraction. Nice informative Blog. Later!

TheNumisMaster

Level 5

Very fascinating. Thanks for sharing, as all of this is new to me. I have never been into medals or really any form of Exonumia for that matter, but maybe its time to take a look! Cheers, NM

Longstrider

Level 6

Never give up Mike. Here is what Stacks said in one of their auctions of this very Token: Sold $10,575 March 2013 Baltimore LOT DESCRIPTION 1794 Franklin Press Token. W-8850. Plain Edge. MS-64 RB (PCGS). 78.7 grains. Deep chestnut-red with lively though soft underlying mint orange throughout. From an early state of the obverse die before the cud forms at the center of the press, and scarce as such. Die chips seen at ERT of LIBERTAS. A popular British Conder token -- Middlesex, D&H-307a -- that has been adopted by U.S. collectors owing to the Benjamin Franklin connection, however fleeting that may be. Undeniably choice for the grade, and tied for finest RB of the variety seen by PCGS. PCGS Population: 3; none finer within the RB designation. PCGS# 631. Provenance: From the Ted L. Craige Collection. Purchased from Richard Picker at an undisclosed time. Paper envelope and Picker's envelope included. PCGS Population: 3; none finer within the RB designation.

walking liberty

Level 4

I would just take it to PCGS at that point if NGC would not just correct a label

CentSearcher

Level 5

One would think that a professional grading company would make a mistake that simple. I once read that a coin had one grade, but when it was resubmitted it was brought up by like 8 or 10 points. Hopefully they are a bit more efficient now

I. R. Bama

Level 5

I'm a little confused. Is this a token or a penny? It clearly reads London on the reverse and to my uninformed view is a token. I know your knowledge of tokens is peerless. I did find this interesting reference to them : https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/colonials/post-1776-private-regional-issues/franklin-press-token-1794/837#:~:text=The%201794%20Franklin%20Press%20Token,advertising%20tokens%20by%20certain%20merchants).

"SUN"

Level 5

Hang in there. Hopefully, you get the correction someday.

CoinHunter

Level 5

Nice blog!

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