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23 Dec 2018

What Does "Genuine" Mean?

Coins | iccoins

                You have probably seen them, the slabbed coins that either say “Genuine” or “Details” instead of an actual grade like you are generally used to. PCGS and NGC have slightly different ways of dealing with problem coins. PCGS considers these “Genuine,” while NGC calls them “Details.” Both mean essentially the same thing.

PCGS

                If someone sends a problem coin to PCGS, it will either a.) be slabbed as “Genuine” or b.) be placed into a “body bag,” arriving unslabbed, likely because the coin is counterfeit. In the past, PCGS put every “Genuine” coin into a body bag and sent it back to the sender unslabbed and ungraded. Fortunately, the company has, for the last several years, placed most problem coins in a slab with the “Genuine grade.” These coins still have verified authenticity and even come with the certification number. That means problem coins can still circulate just as any other PCGS graded coin would. You can even include these coins in your PCGS Set Registry, just without any additional points as with non-“Genuine” examples. While these coins do not get the general numerical grades, they do receive a basic “grade” based on the surface of the coin and the amount of wear the coin has seen. As an example, you can have a cleaned coined with “MS Details” if the coin has been immaculately preserved, but unfortunately, cleaned. PCGS only “grades” these coins with the basic letter but does not give the coin a numerical grade. If a coin with “MS Details” did not have a problem with it, it would grade somewhere between 60-70.

PCGS Codes

                PCGS has different codes to go along with the problems on the coins. The following is a list of codes:

90: Not Genuine (Will not be slabbed)

91: Artificial Toning/Coloring

92: Cleaned

93: Planchet Flaw

94: Doctored/Altered

95: Severely Scratched or Damaged/Rim Damage

96: Tokens/Non-coins (Will not be slabbed)

97: Environmental Damage

98: General Damage

99: PVC Damage (Will not be slabbed)

NGC

                NGC called problem coins “Details” coins instead of “Genuine,” but both programs are very similar. Like PCGS, NGC gives the coin a letter grade, but avoids numerical grades for problem coins. NGC Details coins have verified authenticity and also have the certification number. Unlike PCGS, however, NGC does not use codes and instead uses more precise descriptions of the problem on the coin, such as “Damaged, Improperly Cleaned, PVC Damage, Chopmarked, Altered Mintmark, etc.

Some people find “Genuine” or “Details” coins to be bad, but I personally disagree. A problem coin slabbed by PCGS or NGC still has more value than a raw example and also verifies the authenticity and places it in a nice slab for protection.                You have probably seen them, the slabbed coins that either say “Genuine” or “Details” instead of an actual grade like you are generally used to. PCGS and NGC have slightly different ways of dealing with problem coins. PCGS considers these “Genuine,” while NGC calls them “Details.” Both mean essentially the same thing.

PCGS

                If someone sends a problem coin to PCGS, it will either a.) be slabbed as “Genuine” or b.) be placed into a “body bag,” arriving unslabbed, likely because the coin is counterfeit. In the past, PCGS put every “Genuine” coin into a body bag and sent it back to the sender unslabbed and ungraded. Fortunately, the company has, for the last several years, placed most problem coins in a slab with the “Genuine grade.” These coins still have verified authenticity and even come with the certification number. That means problem coins can still circulate just as any other PCGS graded coin would. You can even include these coins in your PCGS Set Registry, just without any additional points as with non-“Genuine” examples. While these coins do not get the general numerical grades, they do receive a basic “grade” based on the surface of the coin and the amount of wear the coin has seen. As an example, you can have a cleaned coined with “MS Details” if the coin has been immaculately preserved, but unfortunately, cleaned. PCGS only “grades” these coins with the basic letter but does not give the coin a numerical grade. If a coin with “MS Details” did not have a problem with it, it would grade somewhere between 60-70.

PCGS Codes

                PCGS has different codes to go along with the problems on the coins. The following is a list of codes:

90: Not Genuine (Will not be slabbed)

91: Artificial Toning/Coloring

92: Cleaned

93: Planchet Flaw

94: Doctored/Altered

95: Severely Scratched or Damaged/Rim Damage

96: Tokens/Non-coins (Will not be slabbed)

97: Environmental Damage

98: General Damage

99: PVC Damage (Will not be slabbed)

NGC

                NGC called problem coins “Details” coins instead of “Genuine,” but both programs are very similar. Like PCGS, NGC gives the coin a letter grade, but avoids numerical grades for problem coins. NGC Details coins have verified authenticity and also have the certification number. Unlike PCGS, however, NGC does not use codes and instead uses more precise descriptions of the problem on the coin, such as “Damaged, Improperly Cleaned, PVC Damage, Chopmarked, Altered Mintmark, etc.

Some people find “Genuine” or “Details” coins to be bad, but I personally disagree. A problem coin slabbed by PCGS or NGC still has more value than a raw example and also verifies the authenticity and places it in a nice slab for protection.

Comments

Mike

Level 7

By the way I just read the blog and comments . Tokens are slabed Civil War Tokens Conder Tokens from England graded and slabed. And tokens that were used for service like the ones people made because the country was broke or at war. Tokens from Joe's Car wash are not. Sorry I forget alot. Mike

Kepi

Level 6

Great information you collected for us! Thanks for all your research!

Thanks I knew something was up with these coins, but never found anything on it. Thanks.

iccoins

Level 4

Yes, Mike, they have some great equipment :O

iccoins

Level 4

Glad you enjoyed!

Mike

Level 7

You don't have the equipment they have . If you did you would see what they see. We disagree on grades but basically that's it.

"SUN"

Level 6

Genuine also are sample slabs. I have some "detail" coins. I don't always agree with them, but that is the way it goes.

iccoins

Level 4

They can always make mistakes. A coin they believe has "artificial toning" may be some unusual natural toning. Coins they believe to be cleaned may not actually be.

Longstrider

Level 6

I have a few "problem" coins. Not a problem for me. I was able to get into a type coin I normally wouldn't be able to. Thanks.

iccoins

Level 4

A lot of times, "problem" coins are great ways to get a great coin at a much cheaper price. It is a "problem" for the submitter, who may have spent lots of money on a raw coin that they believed to be completely genuine and then, it turns out, they were wrong.

The terms "genuine" and "details" are modern-day terms for what used to known as "filler" or "damaged". I always take into account the coin itself when considering purchasing something with such a grade. A genuine or details graded Liberty Walking half dollar might not be worth the money, but a 1737 Higley Copper will still hold considerable value.

iccoins

Level 4

Yep. It always depends on the coin. If you have always dreamed of having some rare coin, but can't afford it, a "problem" coin is a great way to go!

Mokie

Level 6

I have a heavily chopmarked Trade Dollar that PCGS has deemed Genuine but have not assigned any grade. That is fine by me, because the chopmarks, historically important, would make it ungradeable. But by stating it is Genuine, PCGS acknowledges that it is a Mint product and not a fake. I also have a Washington Dollar slabbed by NGC that simply says Uncirculated with no assigned grade, probably a mass slabbing right from rolls of mint issued Dollars.

iccoins

Level 4

I've always thought that about Trade Dollars as well. The chopmarks are so much cooler than non-chopmarked examples :) I actually think they should reconsider "Details" or "Genuine" coins with chopmarks and start giving them a grade, maybe "MS-62 CM" for "Chopmarked" or something. It designates it has the mark, but still gives a grade.

Mike

Level 7

Details is not good. People can't keep there hands off there coins. Genuine means it's real but not gradable. In twenty five years I got one. It took three months but i did find the person who made it where he made it and the date was on the coin. They told me they could not find anything on it but the metal was consisting with the year. Four countries. There blogs countless auction houses but I found the book with that coin in it. Get this they had it all the time. It seems another problem was they only made four. You can prove them wrong if you have time to do the research. So i sent the fax from the English Government to NGC they graded it MS 64 Bronze with the makers name on it. They were right with the metal the coin did have a date. It was of QueenVictoria. Merry Christmas.

iccoins

Level 4

Good story! I don't find them to be that much of a problem. At least you know a "Genuine" means it's real :)

CoinLady

Level 6

Wow! I didn't know all this. Such detail

iccoins

Level 4

Glad you enjoyed!

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